Inspired by Kangmi’s review of Pimsleur Comprehensive Korean, I thought I’d post here asking for more advice on learning the local language.
So far, my experience includes two months of weekly classes taught at the Korea Foundation Cultural Center, plus a month or so of self study with Declan Korean software.
At this point, I can reliably count to 100 in both number systems (the “pure Korean” used for telling time and counting, and the Sino-Korean system used for almost everything else), say “hi” to people in couple different levels of formality, say thanks, get directions to the bathroom, tell my taxi driver how to get home, and ask someone what country he or she originally hails from. All of which is nice, but not particularly useful when striking up your average conversation.
Oh, and, of course, I mastered the all-important survival sentence:
이것이 얼마입니까? (”How much is this?” Short version: 얼마에요?) my first week here.
Thanks to my coworkers, I can now also use the phrase 괜찮아요, which, depending on the context, can mean: “You’re welcome.” “No problem,” “No, thanks. I’m fine,” or, phrased as a question, “Is this OK?” That one word has actually expanded my vocabulary tremendously, but still has its its limits.
This represents the extent of my skills after four months here. And, I want to get better at telling what people are saying. The Declan software is really good (and David swears by it) but I seem to keep forgetting everything I learn when it comes time to actually talk to someone. I whizz through the memorization, writing and listening exercises, but nothing seems to stick with me. It could also be that I’m just not studying enough.
The Rosetta Stone program is supposed to mimic full immersion in that it doesn’t use English at all (from what I’ve read). I just signed up for a month of the online version. I’m going to try adding an hour of that a day, to an hour of Declan and see how that works.
Has anyone else tried any of these programs? Should I just break down and invest in classes at a language institute? Right now, I’ve just been reluctant to invest several hours a day and several hundred dollars in classes, but if that’s the best way, then that’s probably what I’ll end up doing. I’d like to know that it’s worth it.
I don’t want to write a novel in Korean, and I’m not planning on attempting graduate school classes and such in the language, but I would like to do more in social situations (particularly around the families of my husband’s coworkers) than just say “hi,” smile and gesture.
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ZenKimchi 10.19.06 at 2:21 pm
I did the Rosetta Stone before I came here. Didn’t help much at all. It just throws words at you with a native speaker saying them, but you won’t be able to speak from it. And some of the pictures are confusing. Is the word about the color of the car or that it’s turning left?
Jodi 10.19.06 at 3:13 pm
I had written something earlier and then wondered what do I know about learning Korean to offer any advice because it is the one language I have studied that has not stuck with me in the amount of time I’ve studied it compared to my time studying Spanish, Krygyz and Russian.
So I’m hardly one to give advice at all. But since someone brought it up, I have to agree that a lot of the software, books and programs on sale out there for teaching Korean is useless.
A lot of it is good only as far as improving your vocabulary but even still, I’ve found that along with countless other learning methods out there it’s not always colloquial. So while it’s helpful as far as you getting your point across in Korean, it doesn’t do much as far as understanding what people say in response nor does it make you sound natural because folks just don’t talk the way such materials teach the language.
I’ve learned that there is a big difference between “text book” Korean and what is colloquial Korean and what I’ve seen out there is mostly “text book” stuff.
Also, a lot of the stuff I see out there focuses not so much on taking the words and grammar apart and learning Korean than just memorizing it which is useless, especially in the colloquial framework.
I’ve been using an excellent book which has been used for YEARS by foreigners studying Korean and even now it is still a big seller. But I found it useful only as a supplement to having an exellent teacher to explain things to me, correct my pronounciation, and tell the few things in the book which are out-dated.
Also, did you know that women are expected to speak korean differntly than men are? (This has been another challenge I have and many Koreans have complained that I talk like a man.)
So in addition to that book and my teacher, watching T.V., hanging out with Koreans, doing things alone without other foreigners or hanging out with foreigners that speak no Korean what-so-ever thus forcing me to talk on behalf of us all, have helped me the most, I think.
I also like to read sign boards and advertisements on the subway and bus. That has helped in everyday vocab as well as well as grammar construction and simply just getting used to the way Koreans speak or write, culturally.
Like the other day at the subway station I saw an advertisement for a reading campaign and the headline said in Korean: “People who read books are beautiful.” It was a good “cultural” lesson because we’d never say anything like that in English to promote reading (would we?).
Also, I think taking a personal intiative on the stuff I NEED to know has helped to. My latest thing is to write small speeches and toasts in Korean to give at any 회식 I have to attend and to have my teacher go through the corrections of my draft with me. It’s not just memorizing but it’s actually understanding what I wrote, why my mistakes are wrong and why it should be another way…stuff you don’t learn in a text book.
However, I’m still stuck in that phase where I understand more than I can say (sometimes) which is frustrating. And while it’s a great feeling to take the cat to the vet and understand 95% of what the doctor tells me, it’s frustrating to not be able to say what I want to in response to his comments/suggestions.
I think learning is totally an individual process and what works for one person doesn’t work for others. But in my experience the stuff sold out there is sub-par as to how Korean is spoken in the real world and I wish I had realized this earlier on in my time here. The amount of money I’ve wasted on poor learning materials is shocking…
Good luck with your studies. I’m the last person out there to really give any advice but just thought I’d share my experience in trying to learn this language as well.
As all my Peace Corps colleagues will tell you, I’m a horrible foreign language learner.
Cat 10.19.06 at 5:29 pm
Yeah. I did my first hour of Rosetta Stone this morning and the jury is still out. I liked that it didn’t use English at all. It had pictures and Korean phrases and you to listen to the phrase, read the phrase and then choose the right picture or text to correspond with what you hear. After a bit of trial and error you start associating the right phrase with the right picture. However, they seemed to also be putting the subject at the end of the sentence. This is really frustrating, since everything else I’ve learned has you put the subject at the beginning and the verb at then end. I could be wrong though, because, like Joe says, the parts of speech aren’t clear, and I’m not sure this will help me speak Korean, though it might help me understand what I hear more. (I hope)
I probably will end up getting a tutor. The books I have used have been frustrating because most all start off teaching you the absolutely most formal way to say things. I guess it’s good in that you won’t offend anyone by talking down to them, but I’ve felt that you end up sounding completely stupid running around and saying everything in this very formal way that you’d normally use with your boss or an older person. On the other hand, some books only teach you a lower verb conjugation, so you may know a word, but not know how to precisely conjugate for someone you do need to be more formal with.
Cat 10.19.06 at 5:31 pm
Sorry. Should clarify that I meant that in the Rosetta Stone software it seemed that the parts of speech weren’t clear, not in the Korean language itself.
/picky.
kangmi 10.19.06 at 9:37 pm
I’ll have more to say about these later, but in the meantime there are two resources that have helped shape my philosophy of language learning.
The first is Steve Kaufmann of The Linguist, and the second is AJ (can’t remember his last name off the top of my head) of Effortless Language Acquisition. (AJ now works as a tutor for The Linguist, so you’ll find a lot of overlap in philosophy.)
For good measure, read Barry Farber’s How to Learn Any Language. His book was what got me started thinking that maybe learning Korean wasn’t out of the question, even at my age and location.
Truly, I understand that sometimes living in Korea feels little better than living in the US Midwest (which is where I live), as it can seem to be just as hard to find opportunities to really learn and use the language. That’s a big challenge, and I’m interested to see how you solve it.
I went the language classes route for a few months while living in Korea, and while my Korean did improve, I could have gone the slightly harder route of regular, consistent language study on my own (which would have included a tutor, and I did have several). The key, however, would have been regular and consistent study. “Study” doesn’t have to mean with a book. It can incorporate any number of learning opportunities: television, out on the street, reading the newspaper, overhearing conversations, meeting new people. Wherever you are, there is always something new to learn.
Use your Korean (meager though it may be) wherever and whenever you can. It may not be enough now, but you will get better, and in the process, you’ll learn more.
Finally, I have a theory that stress management is a key component of language study while living in Korea. But that’s just my experience.
Tobi 10.19.06 at 10:29 pm
You should really get in touch with my friend Nikki as I know she would be of great help you! She and Darrell are in the states until the end of the month but I know she would be more than happy to “tutor” you once she returns to Seoul.
I get to see them this weekend so let me know and I’ll mention it to her if you’d like.
Maryam in Marrakesh 10.19.06 at 10:44 pm
Aaack, I find the whole learning the language thing so depressing. I speak French, which you can easily get by on in Morocco. But I really need to learn Moroccan. I looked at the Rosetta Stone for Arabic and ultimately glad that I didn’t pick it. Need to find a tutor fast. I think what I need is discipline!
Rose Byrd 10.20.06 at 1:20 am
Cat!
First, find ways NOT be to be intimidated by David’s apparent greater fluency in Korean. The greater formality and number of pauses really is so welcome to David:it’s a much better fit for his personality. Whereas, my dear Catherine,beloved second daughter,extrovert that your are (and we wouldn’t change you at all)would really respond better to tutoring,maybe even in a small group of 2-3. David is more cerebral, you are more emotive,great match but requiring slightly different approaches.
For me, I think of learning a new language solo as opposed to learning in a group the difference between painting a self-portrait and sidewalk quick portraits with dozens of people hovering over my shoulder. Maybe you need the stimulus of learning WITH others vs. learning alone then trying it out on others. You think?
Gdog 10.21.06 at 9:10 am
The hardest part about learning a new language is sticking to it and practicing everyday. I find that the easiest way for me to remember and learn Korean is to discover it when I need it. For example, whenever there are certain situations and I want to learn how to say phrases I just ask my Korean coworkers. I still need to master the alphabet!
Nomad 10.22.06 at 2:45 pm
My biggest problem learning Korean so far is that even though I live here, I rarely get a chance to use anything I learn, and in due course end up forgetting it. The nature of my work has me around people who speak English - even when I come in contact with the Korean military, they usually speak English just as good as I do. At home, my wife and daughter both want to speak English. Almost all of the Koreans I come into contact with around the base here speak and prefer to speak English. If I lived somewhere away from a military base, where I was forced to use it, sink or swim, it would stick with me a lot better. As far as tutors go…that can be good and bad. I had one tutor who rocked, and then I’ve had two more who were more interested in learning English from me than they were in teaching me Korean.
Cat 10.22.06 at 6:57 pm
Yes! This is largely my problem also. The people I work with speak English fluently and want to speak to me in English to in order to improve their language skills even more This makes it way to easy for me to speak English almost all the time.
One of my husband’s coworkers (who also speaks excellent English) advised me to just tell my coworkers that I want them to start speaking to me in Korean, even if I need to reply in English.
It’s the only way I’m going to learn, I think. I keep forgetting what I do learn when I don’t have to use it.
maryeats 10.24.06 at 7:45 am
Man, you are a stud. I whish I would have tried harder with Korean, but fack it, when you are teaching all day, the last thing you wanna do is spend your evening learning a new language. But good luck!
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